Ep 25: The Now, Next and Normal

Ep 25: The Now, Next and Normal


Ep 25: The Now, Next and Normal

The now, next and normal of social marketing is not just another webinar. It’s a punchy and pragmatic look at how you can prosper as networks shift and behaviours change. You’ll leave the session with actionable direction and a head full of real-world advice.

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Full Transcript

Welcome to the Serious Social podcast, created by the straight-talking social media experts at immediate future.

KH – Hi, welcome and thank you for joining this live webcast on the now next and normal for social marketing. We’re going to have a chat for 30 minutes, and then you can ask some questions. So use the chat box, if you have questions or if you want you can put your hand up, I should be able to see. You can use the Q & A too; I’ve got them all running. I’ve got loads of screens running.

So the events of the last few months have really accelerated activity on social media. Most networks have grown with social media active users, now accounting for over half of the world’s population. That’s 51% of population and we’re seeing communities blossom, people share their stories and the support offered around the world. The speed of change though, has not all been positive. Fake news, BLM, the cancel culture. It’s all led to polarising debates, trolls and a minefield of abuse. So the question is, how do brands adapt? How do we navigate these dangerous waters now and what’s going to happen next and how do we manage the future?

So I’m Katy Howell, I run Immediate Future, an independent social media agency. This purpose is to break the social boring and make brands stand up. We’re 16 years old, starting when Facebook was on campus and Twitter was a twinkle in Jack Dorsey’s eye. But I’m joined by the amazing Susanne Korff, director of marketing communications at Princess Cruises, who’s been working in leisure, travel and tourism forever, I think. She’s been leading the marketing and communications at First Choice, Tui, Sandals Resorts and in the last seven years, Princess Cruises. So Suzanne is passionate about, and I know this because we’ve worked together, visualising a future state for a brand and creating a path forward. So really running strategy and activation at the same time, I don’t know how she holds it all in her head.

So welcome, thanks for joining me, Suzanne, can I kick off with of with a how are you? And have things been crazy in the last few months or like many more marketeers, has this been a time for reflection?

SK – Thanks, Katy. And thanks for having me and hi everyone. Yes, as you can imagine, it has been a pretty crazy year so far, especially for Princess. I guess as a marketing department, really ever since February we’ve almost had to the change of direction and a change of purpose, as I’m sure you’re all aware our ships are not currently sailing at the moment. So even our sort of state of business has changed this year. I guess even like we know with regards to social Katy, we kind of had to sort of make the decision to stop posting some aspirational content back in February it was. I just had to check today when we last posted pre-COVID a bit of aspirational content. It was the 4th February.

KH – Oh, wow.

SK – Quite a while ago but interesting to see, even on our sort of social feed from Princess account, how since then it was very much led by PR. It was really a sort of social channel in terms of communicating to quite hard facts and really communicated to our guests, what we were, what our plans were, what we were doing with our ships and really it’s a very uncertain times as well. And it wasn’t really until kind of, sort of towards the end of April when we sort of started resuming some level of normality, back in social. So you can probably say from a marketing perspective we really had to change our direction and it became much more focused on functional comms, really speaking to our guests regarding the cruises that we had to cancel. And also some programmes changes that we made for next year’s sailings as well. The one sort of element to take from that, is that video worked really, really well. We put in front of our audiences, our brand own president, Jan Swartz, she delivered some brilliant video content and I’m pretty sure we were the first cruise line to do it in that way. And it kind of enabled us to get the such great engagement from our audiences, our loyal guests but also people that hadn’t sailed with us before.

KH – Do you know that’s the thing that’s really interesting about that is that it’s extraordinary. That’s a really smart view because it’s authentic and genuine, but it isn’t a new technique, is it? It’s a really old of PR technique. I remember back in the day when British Airways had issues over strikes and then baggage handling, how CEO got up and got in front of a camera. There can be a real impact when you’re in the middle of a bit of a maelstrom for actually showing the human side to your business.

SK – Yeah, absolutely and I think another element, another real positive to take for us. And I don’t know if other brands have experienced the same thing. I think it’s really brought us closer together. We’ve never worked so closely before with our US and our Australian counterparts, but we’ve had to deliver some really challenging comms and we’ve done it together. And I think it was a testament to the teams, how well they’ve worked together under really sort of difficult circumstances.

KH – And I kind of, I think we’re all very clear that the world has gone really turbulent and mad. And I think you’re absolutely right, it’s playing out on social, even now it’s playing out on social, but how should brands deliver a long term result rather than just looking at what’s right in front of them? The danger always is when things are this difficult is seeing what’s right in front of them, or as we’ve seen in recent months, brands jumping on the bandwagon.

SK – I think for us, I mean, each brand has to identify what its long term results is. Ours is obviously getting back to normal, obviously getting our ships operating again, getting sailing again, I think even during sort of unsettled times. And when there’s a lot of uncertainty, like you said, it’s quite easy just to jump on a bandwagon because everyone else is, so there might be a feeling of following the crowd next you feel safer or something. But actually I think each brand really does kind of need to take that time to take stock about what is its purpose, what are they driving towards? I mean, number one, for us, from a marketing perspective, it’s obviously looking after our guests and we have done in the past, obviously continue to do so, but there’s been even more of a focus on looking after our guests because we need to make sure that they’re as happy as can be during these uncertain times as well.

KH – And I think that’s an excellent point because that is about doubling down on your, kind of your brand personality, who you are, your core, your values. And it’s actually in these where things are very weird, you want to stabilise those first, before you push out elsewhere. And I think it’s really interesting watching two set, brands are very different, but there’s those that are doubling down and really understand their audience and what they want from them. Then there are those that are just skittering across the surface, like a pebble being kind of thrown across the lake is that kind of thing. They’re never going in very deep. And they’re the ones that I find, for me have watched this for the last six months, I can almost spot a brand that’s about to head for a car crash. You just know it, they’re not being true to themselves and they don’t know their customer base.

SK – Yeah, I can’t believe its been six months already. I also think as marketeers naturally, we are very future focused, driven in that sense. We like to think ahead, we like to plan. Obviously we lay down media plans, long in advance. We’ve kind of almost had to spin that round in the last six months. And probably you know, for a lot of us it’s felt very reactive, but it’s been quite nice. So with some of my team members, we’ve actually carved out some time and kind of have sat down and thought about the future and where we want to take the brand as well. So it’s been quite positive. That felt like a little sense normality.

KH – Yes, yeah. And also as you rightly say, it’s in our nature as marketeers to keep an eye on the future. I think one of the things I’ve always known about Princess Cruises is that you understand your audiences. And in fact, you and I both have had several conversations about just across the board, which is that understanding an audience is paramount. What’s really interesting is from my perspective is how we appear to have gone full circle in 16 years. So now we’re moving back, our audiences are moving back towards private groups and communities, back in the day, it was all My Space and message boards, but that kind of communities, which is identifying in tribes. And I think we will see more of this in the next six months. So it’s definitely no longer about demographics because with the best will in the world, I don’t hang around with a lot of other 54 year olds in the Southeast of England. My demographics do not count, for who I hang out with. I can tell you. It’s about interests and passions and values, the psychographics. Are you seeing the same in the travel industry, and how has your audience changed?

SK – I think, with our particular audience at Princess they’re very tribal anyway, they’re brought together by a really strong commonality, which is their passion for travel, cruising in particular and also Princess. So we’ve been really fortunate, I mean, there’s oodles of these passenger forums, these princess passenger forums, but the big one is this sort of global one that really, it doesn’t have anything to do with us as a brand, we don’t monitor it or so we don’t of really monitor it in that sense, they kind of let us join, but we just sort of watch it quietly from the distance, but that’s got 95,000 members from around the world who chat about Princess all day long. And then we’ve got, there’s a UK one that someone started and that’s got I think, just over 4,000 members, but it is actually really wonderful sort of seeing how they’re still such advocates of the brand. They really understand why we’ve had to cancel our cruises, with putting them first. And at the same time, they’re really, really excited about cruising again, they’re all talking about when they’ve re-booked their next cruise, which is really wonderful for us to see. And there’s also some, I won’t lie, there some that sort of query why’s their refund taking so long, but what is quite funny, you see other people in the group going, stop talking about that, sets off your own group, if you want to moan about refunds, for example. So it’s really lovely to see that despite everything that’s happened, sort of in the last six months, there’s still that sort of tribal sense, and as you were saying, Katy, they really identify themselves as this group. And that they’re a group of friends really, want to chat about cruising again, next year.

KH – Do you ever contribute; do you ever join in or do you just sit quietly learning about what.

SK – We sit quietly there and we don’t join in and they don’t really want us to join in either it’s their group, but it does provide some really funny anecdotes for our team meetings and WhatsApp chats.

KH – And it is funny, isn’t it. Because I was watching another webinar the other day talking about quantum qual research on our audiences and how it’s a mixture of both. So yes, you can get all of the data you want out social media, particularly out your advertising, but then listening and hearing what’s going on can be just as informative, even if it is on a very smallest, much smaller scale. I think it adds to the balance of it all. So I’m going to change the subject, again, I want to talk about, so let’s talk about fashion, Boohoo recently had issues in rise on social, following the COVID incident at their factory in Leicester, but more importantly, Brandwatch curiously, which is a study that’s just come out recently shows that 80% and more consumers strongly believe a brand should operate according to its values and proactively make the world a better place. They’re less concerned about the sort of performative actions, such as statements or press coverage and that kind of stuff. But what the research found is consumers, particularly in the UK prioritised staff. So brands that look after their staffs. Brands that are sustainable or care about the environment and particularly in the UK, because it’s slightly different in the US, where in the US it’s much more about discounts that come next. Here in the UK it’s brands that show that they’re anti-racist and that they are, they’re inclusive and have diversity programmes. So it’s clear to me that now there is a real mind shift in our audiences in our customers, where companies just cannot paper over the cracks with social.  So, how should brands approach changes internally? Because I feel sometimes the papering over the cracks is external voice, but internally, how can they communicate internally so that the communication happens externally? And I just, I know Princess does this really well.

SK – So, one really nice example I can share is I think it was on the 3rd June. We had an internal announcement and this was following on from the Black Lives Matter movement when it really came to the forefront of social media. And we got this most very heartfelt written letter from our own Carnival Corp president and CEO, Arnold Donald, who has personally experienced racism growing up. He’s from America, from the Southern parts of America. And it was really some him pending a letter to us internally, but it is something we actually ended up sharing on our social media as well. So if you’re interested in reading the letter, it’s absolutely brilliant. And it was just so personal and so heartfelt and what was so nice, it was really lends itself to real true integrity. Given, like you say, there were lots of brands out there who are probably just jumping on a bandwagon. So it was posted on the 3rd June this year, but ultimately sort of Arnold Donald’s vision, given the sort of global network we are as a business cruising all over the world, taking guests from all over the world to all over the world. Now he’s his sort of final line is that, we’re committed to a corporate culture based on inclusion and also relishing the power of diversity as well. So it’s some really strong words, but definitely worth sharing, it was beautifully written–

KH – It was straight from the heart, from the heart, which is a different thing altogether from a polished statement.

SK – Absolutely and it’s his words. And what’s so nice, I think as a sort of corporation, there’s obviously nine brands, nine cruise brands out there, nine cruise lines out there. They sort of really empower us to become brand ambassadors for our own brands. So within Princess, we started on social this hashtag Princess Proud and what was so lovely to see so many of our crew members who really are kind of the driving force behind the personality of the brand, really come to light with their own social media content there and sharing it. There’s a couple of captains who just take the best Time-lapse videos. And what’s so nice obviously is that a lot of them are still on board manning the ships, and they’re going around saying here’s the photo of, so and so and just really putting them to the forefront and sort of really giving them credit saying, why is it that we sometimes only say, thanks kind of after we’ve done stuff, we should keep saying thank you to each other during these times as well. So it’s very, yeah.

KH – It’s lovely, I mean, I think it’s really interesting that you don’t marshal that conversation, you don’t instruct them how they should have those conversations do you. There’s no rules or regulations as such as it, but you empower your employees to have a voice.

SK – Absolutely, and like I said, they’re, they sort of add that added level of personality, don’t they, to the brand. And we know, our own guests. I mean, they sometimes come back to particular ships because they just love that crew. And they know that crew will be on board the ship and they talk about the crew a lot in these passenger forums, who they’ve met and who they miss and things like that. So it’s quite a special relationship.

KH – Perfect, so before I ask this question, so quick reminder, do ask questions in the chat and the Q and A, so we will happily answer those after the next couple of questions. So, the last few months have been really tough on one group in social media. Everything else has gone flying, but it’s been really tough on influencers and particularly travel influencers in this really weird social landscape we’re in at the moment. But you’ve always maintained really good, strong relationships and very close and constant relationships with influencers. Tell us more about your approach.

SK – Well, I think that’s complete, that’s a testament to my team really, who they sort of launched our influencers programme at Princess. So we haven’t been doing it in the grand scheme of things for that long, it’s only for a matter of a few years, but what they’ve done is they’ve just created these amazing trips for our influencers or content creators. And they’ve always done group trips and they’ve like really bonded as a group. And it’s kind of drawn on all the elements of what our brand stands for as well, which is sort of conviviality and visiting new places and having just an absolutely great time on board and interacting with our crew and it becoming the home from home when you travel. And for a lot of them, it was the first time on a cruise as well. So it was really quite an eye opening experience for them. And what we’ve done is taken different groups on these different trips. And then the team had a really good idea about bringing together some of our previous influences when we launched Sky Princess last October. So it was our inaugural cruise. So it kind of felt a bit like a sort of school reunion, as such, which was fantastic. And it just goes to show that they’re committed to our brands as well, and that they had a really great time, the first time that they wanted to come back. And then, so one quite nice example was during lockdown. One of the influencers, Sandy Makes Sense. I think she’s got like 18,000 followers or something, but she’s been sailing with us a couple of times. And she recreated these brilliant sort of like themed sort of trips back at home. So in her kitchen and dining room area, so she did an Italian themed meal one day and then a Spanish themed meal another day. And then, it was middle of May She posted about; she did a Princess Cruises post as well. Like I sailors hut, it was quite comical, but she kind of rounded up her favourite foods that she had on board the ship, and she tagged us in it and sort of talked about what great time she had as well. So I think that’s just a testament to that relationship building. It’s, like I said before, it’s the integrity, isn’t it? It’s not just some sort of, I guess, getting hold of a product and then pretending they like it. I mean, the ones that they’ve worked with really genuinely sort of a part of our family now as a brand.

KH – Which is fantastic, and it feels like the now is very much going with the flow. You had a lot of comms to get out to consumers, but also about just sort of just running with what you have in a way. And because you have such an amazing support group for employees and influencers you’re able to just run with that. So of course, now we’re beginning to move on a little bit. It’s very troubled in the travel industry, but we are beginning to move forward. But generally speaking, what we found in social is that short term campaigns don’t work very well unless they’re extraordinarily focused because they don’t, they have minimal impact on the long term brand because they become transient, but like everything else, we’re seeing a strong change in that, because in a way, our consumers on social are changing behaviours very rapidly. Short term campaigns are actually having quite a deep impact. So, and I think it’s also because some brands are beginning to understand that you need to be entertaining or your quality content works way better than just posting out, you know, wisdom Wednesday and motivational Monday or travel Tuesday because weirdly I’ve never found anybody who actually follows those hashtags. So how do you fashion, how do you like to fashion short term quickfire campaigns, which will both generate immediate results, but also play into your kind of long term brand building?

SK – I think one that we didn’t necessarily launch on social start with. We actually did it by our email communications and this was obviously in response to lock down and everything, but we did a Princess at home campaign, which was brilliant. Because obviously we couldn’t get our guests on board, our ships, anymore because we had to stop operating, but it kind of gave them inspiration to sort of like recreate some of their favourite menus or activities, which they would have had on board back at home. And then we got some, one of our mascots Stanley the Bear, he did a bedtime story for, families with children. So that was really wonderful and that got really lovely response. And it’s quite funny, you kind of see that circle back onto those passenger forums we were talking about earlier and people kind of posting what they had done to recreate. There was one lady she must’ve lived in an apartment somewhere, but she was doing a sail away drinks on her balcony.

KH – I love it because and also it’s just perfect timing, really when we were all desperate for something new is catching that kind of Zike-Geist, isn’t it. It’s catching that moment, which has been for us certainly, at immediate future, it feels that a lot of what we’ve been doing our six months is watching and responding really quickly, being agile as people say. But that is not necessarily what’s going to happen next. For us certainly next is slightly more campaign focused. And how do we shift gears and get the business up and running again now that we’re not, not all shut at home. How is it for you guys? What are your next steps?

SK – In terms of campaign, so at the moment, sort of the being quite, not necessarily brand led, they’ve probably been quite more commercially focused at the moment and that could be goes in line with a lot of other brands in travel. But the nice thing is I said, we had some planning session the other week, which was also kind of more about our brand again, and we’ve previously run some brilliant mini campaigns on social with our brand ambassador, Phillip Schofield. So obviously in the plans is like, how do we do that going forward? But we obviously need to film back on board. When we can actually get back on board again.

KH – What do you do with celebrities in masks because if they’re a bit hidden away.

SK – Well, we’ll figure that one out. when we cross that bridge. But the nice thing about the Princess at home mini-campaign it kind of does sort of objective of that was sort of, it was still about brand building for the long term. So it was almost reminding audiences about Princess.

KH – Yeah, perfect. So, where’s the future? Is there a normal on the horizon? So have you done some planning?

SK – If that’s the million dollar question, Katy if I knew the answer to that, I wouldn’t be here.

KH – Or maybe to hope for when you had a crystal ball, I have to say.

SK – Exactly, I guess just that at a degree it still feels like we’re working on the here and now, there’s still a lot of not uncertainty just within our industry, but just general uncertainty in our economic climate. The government talking about potential second wave, I mean there is just so much uncertainty still out there, but I think we’ve come to a point now in terms of what sort of our new normal is at the moment in marketing. And then also we’ve had a chance to kind of really focus on what our plans are for next year, which is really, really exciting. Because it kind of felt like it, it felt to us that was sort of our purpose again as marketers it is what we’re here to do. I think collaboratively as an industry, what’s really nice at the moment we’re sort of working on towards the restart of cruising again, what will cruising look like in the future? And so sort of we’re bringing our guests along on that communications, bringing the media along on some of those communications as well. So working as collaboratively as possible, because obviously we want to put a benchmark in place and really sort of get that confidence back into cruising. But otherwise, finalising our marketing plans really focused on obviously the sailings for next year. And I guess the three main sort of core areas are looking after our guests, looking after our own teams and protecting our brand.

KH – Perfect, perfect, excuse me. So we have, right, I’ve got a question. How should we approach social media content marketing during Christmas this year? Do you rely on the usual Christmas chatter or should we modify our tone based on what’s happened this year?

SK – Oh, good one. I think we’ve been so focused for us as a brand on obviously 2021, but I guess, if you’re a brand that really relies on the Christmas period, you probably still want to retain that magic, don’t you? To a certain degree. And I think it’s going to be something that as a nation, all of our consumers, regardless of demographic or age, majority of people that can be the next big event in the calendar, isn’t it? And obviously it’s a chance to regroup, be with friends and family, hopefully. And I think it’d be a real shame if brands didn’t sort of have a Christmas campaign for the ones that traditionally do. I think, the nation would definitely be feeling that they’re missing something.

KH – So we did, we spotted a peak in people talking about Christmas in July. We wrote a report about it, which you can download for free off our website. But, what’s really interesting it’s exactly those triggers, which is there’s a nostalgia, quite a lot of that whole, oh, I just want something special. There’s a bit of wanting family. And then there’s another part which was slightly unexpected, which is me gifting through Christmas, which is, people feeling they deserve a treat, that they need something to look forward to, whether it’s Christmas itself or gifts that will, that they can look forward to next year. And I think that’s really interesting because that means that there is soft spots and we’re not the only ones who spotted it because if you spend your life like I do on social media, you’ll see that some big brands, are actually starting their Christmas campaigns. Which is a, just even for me, is just like, whoa, it’s August or it was when I first saw it, it’s like, it’s August, what the hell.

SK – That was John Lewis though wasn’t it?

KH – Yeah, yeah.

SK – But they said they had the data to prove it, that they had a high volume of people searching online for Christmas.

KH – Yeah.

SK – In the retail space, they’re quite dominant on there for the Christmas market. I mean, what would it be like if we didn’t have a John Lewis Christmas advert.

KH – I don’t know. I really don’t know. And in terms of, it’s really interesting because I think Christmas is going to be that, a really interesting inflexion point for us. I think it’s that bit where we kind of forgive ourselves that we’re not rushing around trying to make things better and go, let’s just chill out now which we’ve not been able to do. And it’s a chance for us to look to the new year feeling that we can kiss goodbye to 2020. And that I wonder is, I wonder if people will look at the, I know this is just crystal ball gazing, but people will look at travel in a different way, because this year has all been about domestic travel really to a certain extent. People have been desperate to get away, but whether or not that will increase the being more adventurous maybe. I don’t know.

SK – Hopefully, well, I think it’s sort of given us the, I think there’s lots of trends out there saying how consumers are kind of, they’ve really some taken stock on how important family and friends are, which, in our industry in travel is kind of, that’s what we’re about, isn’t it? Connecting family and friends together.

KH – Yeah, absolutely. And I, so I’ve got a question for you. Which is, so I know that the whole cruise industry, but it’s very keen to encourage an audience that maybe doesn’t always go cruising that doesn’t know cruising. And I wondered if you thought about using TikTok? I just threw that one in there just in case.

SK – No, we haven’t thought about using it yet, we never really kind of use Snapchat either as a brand I think it’s partly because our demographic isn’t necessarily there who usually would market to, and that’s fairly from a marketing perspective. I think to the closest we’ve got to Snapchat is probably through Phillip Schofield, who absolutely loves it. And when he goes in our trips, he happily Snapschat’s away. TikTok though, I don’t know, but ideas welcome, funny ones.

KH – It’s an interesting one. I think brands are still finding their way on there, because, while we, as consumers of TikTok, we’re quite happy, you look at lip syncs and brands need to find a position that fits them. I have to say I’m mildly obsessed with it. It’s my evening’s entertainment, is flying through TikTok. So what’s your favourite channel?

SK – I think Instagram at the moment, it varies. I kind of have different purposes. I’ve got most of my topics of my age, that lot of my sort of school and uni friends are on Facebook, so for that purpose, it’s great. But I guess Instagram, just, I just, I love visuals, I love great photography and it kind of combines them.

KH – Yeah, no, well you’re in the right industry. So if there were, we looked at the now, we’ve looked at what’s happening next and we’re kind of future gazing into the future. I don’t think normal will be normal pre-COVID. I think normal we’ll see us more people on social, more people buying online. And it’s really interesting that as my children would call them, the boomers are very active on social media. And age is really not an issue now for, for it across the broad range of socialist states now you’re seeing people demographically from those and hunting down those interest groups are going to be a big priority for us as brands. And the challenge for us is that whilst you lovely, your lovely customers allow you into their private groups, not every brand is going to have that. And I think we need to consider how our content will travel in dark social, through WhatsApp messenger and then on from that. So, oh, I’ve got another question. So, through all the changes and comms shifting even more to social this year, does Suzanne think it has changed how senior execs or anyone in Princess views the value of social media? Great question.

SK – Good question. I think we’ve seen, I think, I guess this February and we’ve almost had to use social media as like a real comms channel and going beyond some of the aspirational and some real, some hard hitting kind of almost breaking news stories. And I think it, I don’t think it changed so much that we didn’t have the senior execs on board social in the first place. I think because we’ve had to put them on social, people like Jan, I think they sort of witnessed now how powerful it can be. And also some of the advocates that we have online there, I think it’s kind of probably brought them closer to our guests, if anything.

KH – It’s great.

SK – Yeah, and that’s fantastic. I remember even when I started out in marketing, which will I don’t want to say how many years ago that was, but I think a lot of CEO’s back then were just like, why are you bothering with Facebook? Why does our brand need a Facebook profile? And they were asking those questions back then.

KH – Yes, thank the Lord that stopped. Now what we’ve got is going well, please, please, just something more, just put posts out there, think about it. But anyway, another question.

SK – I’m sorry, Katy.

KH – No, go, go, go.

SK – I’m also really fortunate that even our own VP, he understands the value of social, he actually really enjoys social as well. He gets himself out there as kind of like brand president out there. So it’s good to have that backing as well and understanding.

KH – And the reality is it’s so powerful and it’s even more powerful when it’s used with other marketing techniques. That’s where the real value in social sits. Another question, what social platforms do you see losing popularity as we go into 2021? Is there a platform that brands should be jumping on now?

SK – I think it depends what brand you are. So, like I said before, we as a brand, haven’t been on Snapchat or TikTok because it’s not where our audience is. So I always use this that you really need to understand your audience first and go where are they going to be. It’s not where we want to be personally.

KH – Exactly, and I don’t, yes, I’m with you. The biggest mistake you can make. I mean, I was joking about TikTok aside, much of many of the brands we work with TikTok is not appropriate their audiences are not sitting there. We want an audience that’s going to buy their stuff, (laughs) at the end of the day. I’m not, it’s great in the future planning down the line, but it’s of no value if it’s not here and now. So I’m with you. You just do it audience first, but there’s also, it’s a really interesting question because the main stay is Facebook and Instagram. If you’re B to B, there is an element of LinkedIn, and an element of Twitter, but in all of this, I do feel that people keep forgetting that our content, our entertaining fun invested quality content, never stays put, and we have to remember that that will travel because I mean, even this week alone, I must have WhatsApp content and Snapchated content and popped content out on Slack and pop content now, all of which I’m seeing through social, that I’m just pressing the button on Twitter and then forwarding it to an email or text or that bit we have got to start to get to grips with, is understanding that the context of where we’re posting may well change and this move towards communities on this dislike of having a conversation, unless it’s a complaint with a brand is only going to get bigger and bigger as more people get on social media.

SK – I think also from a marketing perspective, we’ve identified obviously Facebook is absolutely key for our demographic, but also it’s really good channel for how we can tell our brand story and same with YouTube, because cruising can seem quite complicated, especially to someone who’s never cruised before. Just video itself, we can explain a story in 30 seconds or one minute or ideally 30 seconds or less, but you just can’t sometimes do that in like in a small sort of display ad somewhere. So, it kind of also, so you need a medium to help support your brand story.

KH – Actually that’s spot on, isn’t it, because we, instant experience is a great way of getting to depth and interest of something where there’s complexity and cruising is that, it’s got so many options. And so many ways you can look at it and so many different types of trips. And what does this mean? And this cruise mean and all of that sort of stuff as it is that storytelling, but overused word, in my opinion, storytelling. People say that they don’t understand what a story, I know it sounds daft because we all know what a story is, but it’s actually quite hard to do, to do it without washing and rinsing it through layers of stakeholders that what you get out, you wouldn’t sell to kids at primary school. It’s not a book, it’s not a story. So I think it’s one of those things where the craft for social, which has really leant for the last 15, 16 years on technology and speed of technology is beginning to lean back into where it belongs, which is in the content and content formats and types. And rather than just the delivery mechanism.

SK – Yeah.

KH – Brilliant, I think that’s all the questions for now. Thank you so much, Suzanne. That was fantastic. And I know we’ve only skittered across the surface. So if anybody is particularly shy and had some questions, we will be popping this online, but you can get to us @iftwitter on Twitter @immediatefuture on LinkedIn and of course, Immediate Future on Facebook. And we’ll talk to you through all those channels or you can contact me at katy.howell@immediatefuture.co.uk. Thank you so much Suzanne you’re fantastic as always. And thank you for sharing such wonderful insights.

SK – Thank you, Katy

KH – Bye everyone.

SK – Bye.

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